So, what happens when these 'cured diabetics' go back to eating the foods and sensible amount of calories after the trial. My money is they will be back to square one, unless of course they grow more beta cells, which is impossible.
Read Hannah Sutter's full post here. Some extracts below Eddie
"The study that triggered this grant was small, lasted 8 weeks and was carried out by Prof Roy Taylor a couple of years ago. It involved 11 adults with type 2 diabetes who followed an 800 calorie-a-day diet that came from low-calorie shakes provided by Nestle. Guess what –if you starve people they will lose weight fast. I am not sure you need a study to show that but what you really want is a study that shows what happens after they have been on a starvation diet.
The new large study, which has now started, is being supported by a firm called Counterweight which is controlled by Cambridge Nutritional Food Limited which in turn owns the Cambridge Diet. The subjects in the trial will be getting Counterweight shakes, the same ones that Cambridge Nutritional Food Ltd has been flogging shakes to the obese and the overweight for over 40 years.
To be fair to the founder of Cambridge Diet, Dr Alan Howard, started his work in the 1960s with a genuine wish to find a practical solution to obesity and created the prototype of the current VLCD shake. By 1984 this great idea had been commercialised and is now a multimillion pound business selling shakes to the obese worldwide. Turnover of Cambridge Nutritional Food Limited last year was approximately £36,000,000
Read Hannah Sutter's full post here. Some extracts below Eddie
"The study that triggered this grant was small, lasted 8 weeks and was carried out by Prof Roy Taylor a couple of years ago. It involved 11 adults with type 2 diabetes who followed an 800 calorie-a-day diet that came from low-calorie shakes provided by Nestle. Guess what –if you starve people they will lose weight fast. I am not sure you need a study to show that but what you really want is a study that shows what happens after they have been on a starvation diet.
The new large study, which has now started, is being supported by a firm called Counterweight which is controlled by Cambridge Nutritional Food Limited which in turn owns the Cambridge Diet. The subjects in the trial will be getting Counterweight shakes, the same ones that Cambridge Nutritional Food Ltd has been flogging shakes to the obese and the overweight for over 40 years.
To be fair to the founder of Cambridge Diet, Dr Alan Howard, started his work in the 1960s with a genuine wish to find a practical solution to obesity and created the prototype of the current VLCD shake. By 1984 this great idea had been commercialised and is now a multimillion pound business selling shakes to the obese worldwide. Turnover of Cambridge Nutritional Food Limited last year was approximately £36,000,000
So Diabetes UK is throwing 2.5 million of cash at two professors who are busy working with Cambridge Diet to prove that, notwithstanding 40 years of unimpressive results, a VLCD is the way to solve the UK crises of obesity and diabetes."
Pages and pages about the Newcastle diet on DCUK but nothing from the participants after they finished it. Guess they gradually put weight back on.
ReplyDeleteQuite the marketing gimmick, wish I had thought of something like that. Suckers diagnosed every minute
ReplyDeleteThat is funny coming from someone like Sutter - a lawyer flogging food! What is the difference!!
ReplyDelete"What is the difference!!"
ReplyDeleteShe was selling food last time I checked, our team sell nothing.
Eddie
Nestle is a financial sponsor of the Australian Dieticians Association. Diabetics could just eat real unprocessed food, rather than shakes. How come I have figured out how to control diabetes, but a professor doesn't understand it?
ReplyDeleteWhat concerns me is Taylor is acknowledged as one of the UK's top notch diabetes experts. and he seems to not understand a big reduction in carbs is all most diabetics need to do to get great control.
ReplyDeleteThese boffins will try anything other than admit they have got it 100% wrong.Poncing around with starvation diets and expensive shakes etc.
As you say Lisa we have worked it out but the Profs are clueless, or rather they pretend to be !
Got to keep in with junk food and big pharma I reckon.
Eddie
I watched a long video presentation by Taylor. Insulin elevation by carbohydrate and DNL lipid synthesis is central to the pathology. He gets it, what he's doing is not the opposite of LCHF but a shortcut to the same effect, for people who want to see rapid results, and are prepared to suffer for it.
ReplyDeleteWe'll see if his patients go back to their usual diets once the pancreas is fixed. If they do, it'll break again.
If the patients aren't trying to loose weight (which of course they do) but fix diabetes, the diet should work. After all, they'll be burning fat, just as if they were eating VLCKD. And I think Taylor understand the role of carbs well enough to give them half-way decent advice for when they start eating again.
And, if that doesn't work, he might be smart enough to come up with a better answer.
Anyway, check out the video and see what you think.
I think, the more options on the table, the better.
http://www.fend-lectures.org/index.php?menu=view&id=94
I think a lot of people are missing the point of Rob Taylor's research. The diet drinks recommended in his weight loss plan were used to simulate the restricted diet intake of someone who had gastric band surgery. The important factor was a reduced calorie intake of 800 per day (in effect a crash diet for a recommended period of 6 weeks). I did this NOT using diet shakes or protein drinks but by eating normal food and drinking lots of water.
ReplyDeleteSo what happens after? Well, I eat a sensible, relatively low sugar and low saturated fat but not calorie controlled diet (as we all should - not just diabetes sufferers) I continued to lose weight for a time but now seem to have plateaued at a BMI score of 21 - 21.5. I no longer need to take ANY meds for diabetes and have recorded hbA1c levels of 5.5 for my last 2 tests. It's not rocket science. Accumulated fat does have an effect in internal organs. What is there to lose by trying it...apart from maybe a couple of toes or your kidneys? In case you were wondering - I was diagnosed 18 months ago when I was taken into hospital with blood glucose levels of 30.1. I have had normal B/G levels for 11 months. Thank God I read about Rob Taylor's research.
Thanks for your comment anon. I will do my best to start a new thread/post tomorrow on your post.
ReplyDeleteThe bottom line must be, however you control diabetes must be right, and anything is better than poor control.
Regards Eddie
PS Apologies..I meant ROY Taylor, not Rob. My bad (spelling!)
ReplyDeleteWhat are you ... a lackie for the drug companies The professor isnt claiming that his diet re-grows beta cells you moron.. he's saying reducing calories reduces fat in the liver and pancreas thereby increasing insulin senstivity. And it undobtedly works! His methodology is only applicable to TYPE 2 ! Get your facts straight !
ReplyDeleteAnonymouse said...
ReplyDeleteWhat are you ... a lackie for the drug companies The professor isnt claiming that his diet re-grows beta cells you moron.. he's saying reducing calories reduces fat in the liver and pancreas thereby increasing insulin senstivity. And it undobtedly works! His methodology is only applicable to TYPE 2 ! Get your facts straight !
Just were does Eddie claim Roy Taylor says his diet can re-grow beta cells dumbo?
Don't you also realise LowCarb can also reduce visceral fat and increase insulin sensitivity without any calorie reduction.
If Eddie was a drug company lackie the surely he would not be promoting Lowcarb now would he ?
Get your facts right moron before opening your big gob!!!
Nighty night
Graham
The key for me is that it is the level of fat within the Pancreas and Liver that attributes to the problems with insulin production and hence sugar control.
ReplyDeleteI had been diagnosed with a fatty liver 10 years ago when I was undergoing health checks. Nobody has ever said to me within the health profession that If I made a concerted effort to reduce the fat in my liver and other internal organs that it would have a profound effect on my internal system. Instead like millions of others I am just offered pills to reduce the symptoms of the diabetes which meddle with the organs to try to produce more insulin.
Why is the medical profession not going for the jugular ie the route cause of diabetes with people, why cant doctors harshly advise people to act before it is too late?
If I have an oil leak in my car its not good to ignore the fact that the gasket has blown and just keep putting more oil in.
Anonymous, you are completely correct. I was recently diagnosed Type 2, and found the Newcastle University research. I've been on the diet for three months, lost 85 pounds, reduced my A1C from 8.1 to 5.6 after just two of those months, reduced my fasting BS to a thirty day average of 79, and brought my previously critically high liver enzymes to just less then the center point of the normal range. My cholesterol used to be anywhere from 175 to 230, and is now 123. My doctor is amazed and supportive of my diet plan to continue for several more months for me to achieve a healthy BMI of around 24. I am a 50 year old male who weighed 340 pounds with a BMI of 41 on 20 July 2015. I'm now at 254 pounds, and 35 BMI. I estimate that I will need to reduce to around 190 pounds to achieve around a 24 BMI. I have not been using the Optifast product, but a mix of five different meal replacement shakes for sale in the US. The particular shake is not important, but rather the total calories, and basic mix of nutrients. I really don't understand the animosity towards the research and researchers. This has been successful for me to date, and depending upon my future lifestyle choices, may very well lead to a diabetes free future for me. Can't we all just agree that this may be promising for many type 2 diabetes and be grateful for a way forward that does not assume that metformin and insulin along with a moderately better diet and some exercise and minor weight loss just to slow the progression of the disease is the accepted fate of Type 2 diabetics?
ReplyDeletejagger,
ReplyDeletethank you for sharing your experience and congratulations! I think that there are many ways to obtain such results. For example, I am on the Rosedlae diet right now and my blood sugar is perfectly normal without starving or exercising but I do have some difficulties cause by my IBS etc. We all know what is good and what is bad basically but we sometimes need someone that tells us that.
I have came across the website of Destroy Diabetes or something like that and don't know what to think but since it seems quite hard for me to even try that (I cannot stand too many vegetables) I prefer continuing my way. Anyway, I would really like to read more of stories like that so I hope there will be more of that.!
I JUST PURCHASED THE E BOOK ON THE DIABETES DESTROYER. I HAVEN'T STARTED IT YET BECAUSE I AM CONCERNED ABOUT THE 10 DAY CLEANSE. I'M NOT CONCERNED ABOUT THE 10 DAYS AS MUCH AS THE AMOUNT OF CARBS YOU TAKE IN. I REALIZE THAT THEY ARE GOOD CARBS HOWEVER THIS SEEMS TO BE THE TOTAL OPPOSITE FROM ROY TAYLOR'S PROGRAM. WHAT IS YOUR OPINION OF THE DIABETES DESTROYER PROGRAM?
ReplyDeleteMay I be frank? Looks like a money spinning load of nonsense to me. No one has to spend any money to get control of their diabetes, just check out our free sites.
ReplyDeleteRegards Eddie
As a 76 year old suffering from reoccurring prostate cancer, type2 diabetes and mobility problems due to the effects of heavy working in my youth I was recently told that my levels had risen from 64 to 68 and further medication may be required. Not wishing to make a bad situation worse I asked for time to see if I could improve the situation. Now I have no axes to grind nor do I harbour any preconceptions about the way industry markets itself in order to make money but with your back to the wall it really is amazing what lengths you will go to. Having read the book by Dr Michael Mosely I embarked on a 5/2 campaign and cut out all carbohydrates as an additional measure and whether it fits with some of the disparaging remarks I have read on this blog have now reduced my fasting blood levels from 11 to 13 down to a regular and repeated less than 8. I have a real weakness for dark chocolate and allow myself two large squares or four small squares each night as a treat. In between times I have deliberately added carbohydrates in the form of Oatabix Flakes, apple tart and custard (soy custard) and a single home made oatcake and each time my level has shot up to 9.9 to 10.3. Now I have no objection to people like myself making observations on this topic but any observations should be the result of positive action and not on a diatribe of conjecture. If you want to improve the credibility of what you are trying to do yo must adopt a more factual approach and I would recommend that somewhere you record the contents of the medical paper published in Diabetes Care, volume 36, April 2013 titled Type 2 Diabetes Etiology and reversibility which covers, in depth, the results of bariatric surgery and diet as a method of control or treatment of Type 2 Diabetes. Having read this paper and the findings on beta cell defect and the twin cycle hypothesis of the etiology of type 2 diabetes you may then be in a better place to be critical of what has been done in this field.
ReplyDeleteA.G.Brunton IEng. MIPlantE. MSOE. LCGI. FCIPHE.RP. Master Plumber. (I hope you will note that I am a plumbing and heating engineer and nothing to do with medicine)
As a ps to my earlier comments I wonder if Hannah Sutter would enlighten us with the extent of her knowledge and qualification to offer such comment or even if she suffers from type2 diabetes
ReplyDeleteIt is disappointing that some people are so angry they can't see the wood for the trees. Don't abuse each other but remain open minded as we all have valuable experiences. Some of us in Australia are watching and now acting on this process of a low carb diet and the benefits which are myriad. As always there are other facets to keeping well or improving your health status and exercise is pivotal. Western medicine has become too focussed on the pharmaceutical "cure" but when I see a new drug which treats diabetes by passing excess sugar through the kidneys it really was a bit mind boggling. Prof Roy Taylor seems to have a long term view and I'm sure his work will provide evidence which we can use in treating diabetes. It will be a while but I think GP's may one day provide more sophisticated antidotes for pre-diabetes and diabetes however these will not be as easy for the person with the disease as taking a drug.
ReplyDeleteDr Bob Noll MB BS, FACRRM, DRACOG Subiaco, Western Australia
I am so sorry to see the moronic angry comments on this page. OF COURSE Prof Taylor's work and method is valid. It worked for me. But that does not mean I can not use LCHF to continue with my diabetes free life. The Prof mentions that there is a small group of unfortunate type 2's who have not been diabetice for long [ less than three years ] but fail to respond to the low calorie smash the fat regime. These persons may be helped by low carb. I use low carb whenever I get the feeling I am putting on some weight - as well as being a great way to diet, it is fun too. I hope some of the morons here relax and hang loose. cheers 'bike controller'
ReplyDelete